It's Hard to be a Preemptionist Warrior Out Here

[Herb Schaffler]

Posted on September 10, 2008, 10:45pm | [LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link.
There's a pretty good [LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link. by Jeffrey Goldberg about John McCain's foreign policy. The article spends many words chewing on the experience of Vietnam (most interestingly, McCain's father's approach to that war), but the section I found most illuminating was the Arizona senator's sad conclusion that the American public is just not as interventionist as he'd like:

"While we don't go around launching preemptive strikes all the time, we can't afford to wait until a terrorist organization, or a nation which is an avowed enemy of the United States, has the capability to use weapons of mass destruction-or even uses them," McCain said. "If we knew with absolute certainty that the Iranians were going to support Hezbollah to make sure they got a weapon of mass destruction in southern Lebanon-would we just wait until Hezbollah attacks Israel with that weapon? Well, first of all, I don't think the Israelis would wait, but I'm not sure. The consequences, as we know, are catastrophic." (In May, when I asked McCain why the defense of Israel was an American national-security interest, he said, "The United States of America has committed itself to never allowing another Holocaust.")
But McCain, though stalwart in defense of preemption, is not obtuse about its unpopularity; he knows that the idea of preemption has taken on a negative cast.
"With preemption, the connotation is that the cowboy just wants to go out and attack people," he said. "The country is in one of our occasional periods of isolationism, a reaction to what [the public views] as failure, even when we are succeeding in Iraq-and we have succeeded in Iraq. There's still going to be a greater reluctance than there was" before the Iraq War to try to stop an adversary from gaining possession of weapons of mass destruction.
As he said this, he seemed depleted by the discussion of preemption. It's not the first unpopular cause he's adopted, but it might be the most difficult one to sell to the American public.
"It's very hard to run for president on this idea right now."

Recall that in a [LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link. on the same subject this past May, McCain expressed similar regret that the American people [LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link. to back interventions in Zimbabwe and Burma at this time. Perhaps under a McCain presidency they can be convinced.

[nohil-billy]

IT'S AMAZING THAT AN ANTI-SEMITE SO FREQUENTLY QUOTES LIBERAL JEWISH AUTHORS. WELL, NOT TOO AMAZING. DID ANYBODY BESIDES ME NOTICE THAT MANY OF THE TERRORISTS FROM THE FIRST WTC BOMBING HAD JEWISH LAWYERS.

[hrdman2luv]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

IT'S AMAZING THAT AN ANTI-SEMITE SO FREQUENTLY QUOTES LIBERAL JEWISH AUTHORS. WELL, NOT TOO AMAZING. DID ANYBODY BESIDES ME NOTICE THAT MANY OF THE TERRORISTS FROM THE FIRST WTC BOMBING HAD JEWISH LAWYERS.

Nope your the only one. Did you notice that I was the only one who caught your racist comments?

[nohil-billy]

And what racist comment would that be H2L? As usual, I have no idea where you're coming from.

[hrdman2luv]

The ones that you used against jews and jewish lawyers. Are you implying that jewish lawyers are any different than any other lawyers in the USA? There has to be some reason why you took note of the "jewish" lawyers. Otherwise the word "jewish" wouldn't be an issue.
And yes, you have made it an issue by bringing it up. Yes, you brought it up. In your own words, you mentioned jewish and jewish lawyers twice in three sentences.
You got something against being jewish?

[nohil-billy]

What I was saying, was that Herb is constantly bashing Israel and the Jews, but will quote Liberal Jewish authors when what they write fits his agenda.

Radical Islam constantly calls for the elimination of the Jewish people and the Jewish State, but when it was in their best interest, they hired Jewish Lawyers.

As I stated before, I love the Jewish people, admire their grit and determination, and am awfully glad that they are on our side.

No wonder I didn't have a clue where you were coming from.

[Herb Schaffler]

I never bash Israel and the Jews and you know it, nohil-billy. You have chosen to demonize me since you can't refute my arguments. My position is that we should never support any other country above the US, but that's exactly what the neoconservatives are doing by supporting the interests of Israel above the interests of the US such as the war they've created in Iraq in order to rearrange the Middle East for Israel's benefit. Iraq represented no clear and present danger to the US, but the neoconservatives told the public a pack of lies to get us involved in the war for the sake of Israel. Now we have over 4000 young American men and women cut down in the prime of their lives for the sake of Israel and tens of thousands permanently crippled for the sake of Israel and an economy that is on the verge of collapse all for the sake of Israel. That's why I'm so opposed to McCain getting elected, because of all the neocons advising him on foreign policy, we will have more of the same of this bankrupt foreign policy. I would be just opposed if we were using our military as a proxy military for any other country. The neoconservatives with their Israel first policy remind me of the American Communists and their policy of putting the interests of the Soviet Union above the interests of Americans. George Washington was very opposed to a policy of being infatuated with other countries. In his farewell address he said, "...a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country..." This describes the neocons and our relations with Israel and their neighbors to a "T".

I like the Jewish people also, fortunately, most of them don't agree with the neocon philosophy and are very opposed to the treatment of the Israeli government towards the Palestinians. I receive emails from a pro Israel organization called J Street. They believe in negotiations as opposed to war for solutions to Israel's problems. But all the neocons and the Likudniks can think about is war, war, war as the solution to all problems and using the American military as a proxy army for Israel.

[hrdman2luv]

I may have been mistaken, but It just seem to me that hillbilly was making a very insutling remark about Jews.

[Herb Schaffler]

I think he was just generalizing about liberal Jews. Not all liberal Jews believe in defending Islamic terrorists. I think the lawyers who defended the terrorists were just doing their job. Everybody is entitled to a fair trial. I'm afraid though that if I were a lawyer, I could not defend certain sleazebags like the 911 terrorists, O. J. Simpson, Charles Manson, etc., but that's just me. I think alot of people would agree with me.

[nohil-billy]

I'm sorry to have punctured the perfect PC bubble that you live in H2L but my comment about Jewish lawyers was not derogatory at all. It was stereotyping, which I believe in.

Like it or not, PC or not, every nationality have particular likes and excel at particular things and immigrants to this country brought their different specialties with them. Greeks and Italians make great restaurteurs, the Irish are fantastic carpenters, and the Jews are great business people, doctors, writers and make some of the best lawyers. O.J.'s dream team was loaded with them.

The Jewish people are a quick study, shrewd, and intelligent. For some reason, religious or economic, people around the world have hated them. Yet when the chips were down, a bunch of Islamic terrorists who would rather kill a Jew than look at one, hired Jewish lawyers to defend their sorry #####. I find this hypocrisy humorous but not unbelievable.

I think where you might be misunderstanding me is that I'm not politically correct and I will not hesitate to point out that different nationalities are good at or partial to different things.

Michael Savage pointed out on his show one day that Americans have gotten too thin-skinned. He talked about the days when we identified ourselves and our friends by nationality, and it brought a smile to my face. We were Wops, Polocks, Lugans and Micks to eachother. No insult intended and none taken.