Card Games & Politics

[Herb Schaffler]

"Your wrong on the 'toes of iron mixed with clay' at the bottom of the statue of Daniel..Iron always represented the Roman Empire..the toes followed the legs of iron of the original Roman Empire---was called the 'one to come!'"

That's fundamentalist claptrap. I'll take the word of the scholars and I've read several books about Daniel written by Bible scholars. It's so clear that everything in Daniel culminates to the time of Antiochus. The symbolism of iron stands for strength of which the Greek Empire was strong under Alexander the Great and the iron mixed with clay means that iron doesn't mix well with clay and therefore is weak as the empire was weakened after being split up among the 4 generals. One to come was the latter Greek Empire ruled by the 4 generals. The Daniel of the book is a character from during the Babylonian Empire who receives prophycies of the future culminating in the time of the writer which is obviously written around 165 BC because of its "fit like a glove" references to Antiochus.

"[PPl like you and other head-in-the-sand folks are the very reason an Antichrist will get into power---most likely a Liberal, homosexual man (says in Danial that 'he has no desire for women'), economic savior, and 'a false man of peace.']"

All those descriptions fit Antiochus.

"You are the deluded one, Herb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"BTW, to the remainder of this thread's viewers, this is the typical outrage, tantrums, and name-calling that Liberals exhibit when they are exposed and supposedly being 'open, compassionate, etc.' I rest my case..."

First of all, I'm not a liberal. Second, it was you, jam, who started the hostile rhetoric. When I'm insulted with implications of being naive and unthinking, I will reply in kind. Otherwise I prefer a conversation of all the issues without all the insults.

You're the one who's brainwashed with fundamentalist propaganda, jam.

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

"Your wrong on the 'toes of iron mixed with clay' at the bottom of the statue of Daniel..Iron always represented the Roman Empire..the toes followed the legs of iron of the original Roman Empire---was called the 'one to come!'"

That's fundamentalist claptrap. I'll take the word of the scholars and I've read several books about Daniel written by Bible scholars. It's so clear that everything in Daniel culminates to the time of Antiochus. The symbolism of iron stands for strength of which the Greek Empire was strong under Alexander the Great and the iron mixed with clay means that iron doesn't mix well with clay and therefore is weak as the empire was weakened after being split up among the 4 generals. One to come was the latter Greek Empire ruled by the 4 generals. The Daniel of the book is a character from during the Babylonian Empire who receives prophycies of the future culminating in the time of the writer which is obviously written around 165 BC because of its "fit like a glove" references to Antiochus.

"[PPl like you and other head-in-the-sand folks are the very reason an Antichrist will get into power---most likely a Liberal, homosexual man (says in Danial that 'he has no desire for women'), economic savior, and 'a false man of peace.']"

All those descriptions fit Antiochus.

"You are the deluded one, Herb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"BTW, to the remainder of this thread's viewers, this is the typical outrage, tantrums, and name-calling that Liberals exhibit when they are exposed and supposedly being 'open, compassionate, etc.' I rest my case..."

First of all, I'm not a liberal. Second, it was you, jam, who started the hostile rhetoric. When I'm insulted with implications of being naive and unthinking, I will reply in kind. Otherwise I prefer a conversation of all the issues without all the insults.

You're the one who's brainwashed with fundamentalist propaganda, jam.

If Nero or Antiochus were 'the Antichrist,' then when did Jesus return ..did I miss it?! LOL

You are a Liberal, Herb, just a 'sleeping Liberal' who hasnt awoke to that fact.

Dont remember insulting you, and didnt mean to 'disturb your Empire' here, but you exhibit the traits of a Liberal: "Supposedly open-minded, but in reality intolerant, and hostile to opposing views, esp. when they are losing a discussion!" Sorry, but that's the way that "I" see it....

At least, Herb, you are well-informed, make valid points, and have more than a 3-word vocabulary like other ADMINS for WiseOne, such as: "McStain, McLame, and Sh*t"....ha ha [Inside joke that WiseOne will get...]

I'll 'take my foot off of your toes,'......JAM

BTW, I like you Herb, and dont take discussions personally...hope you are the same?!

[Herb Schaffler]

"If Nero or Antiochus were 'the Antichrist,' then when did Jesus return ..did I miss it?! LOL"

The writer of Revelation was expecting Jesus to return in his time which was around 90 AD. Antiochus ruled around 165 BC which was before the supposed time of Jesus. Most Bible scholars don't recognize a messiah coming at the end of time in Daniel. They believe the writer of Daniel only believed in a Kingdom of God. They believe where it says "coming in the clouds like a son of man" refers to the Kingdom of God or the world ruled by Israel being Israel personified. "Like a son of man" means a man. In other words, the Kingdom of God would not be symbolized as a beast like the previous 4 empires, it would by symbolized by a man. When Daniel refers to a messiah, the writer is talking about an annointed one. It refers to Cyrus, king of Persia, as the messiah. Isaiah referred to Cyrus as the messiah because he freed the Jewish captives and allowed them to rebuild their temple. At another place where the messiah is cut down, it refers to Onias (spelling?) as he was the high priest and was killed by Antiochus. Messiah means "anointed one". The Jews believed that any king or high priest was anointed and therefore was a messiah.

"You are a Liberal, Herb, just a 'sleeping Liberal' who hasnt awoke to that fact. "

There are 4 basic political points of view which can be futher broken down in sub-catagories. There are conservatives, populists, liberals, and libertarians. Libertarians agree with liberals on social issues and with conservatives on fiscal issues. We start from the premise of individual freedom. We believe that people should be free to do with their lives and property and money as they choose as long as we don't use force or fraud against others. Conservatives have historically been in favor of a non-interventionist foreign policy. That seems to have changed with the William Buckley cold warriors. Read William Kauffman's new book "Ain't My America". I would like to see the Republican Party return to those principles. That's a big reason I want McCain to be defeated, to teach the Republicans the lesson they should have learned in 2006 when they lost control of Congress.

"intolerant, and hostile to opposing views"

That doesn't describe you?

"esp. when they are losing a discussion"

I don't feel I am losing a discussion. We just have a disagreement on politics. I only excalated my rhetoric in response to your rhetoric such as telling me to "wake up" as if I'm asleep and that I'm too dumb to see your great wisdom.

Let's just agree to calm down and lighten up on the insults and just discuss the issues.

[nohil-billy]

Herb, if you don't believe in God, why do you spend so much time trying to disprove him?

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

"If Nero or Antiochus were 'the Antichrist,' then when did Jesus return ..did I miss it?! LOL"

The writer of Revelation was expecting Jesus to return in his time which was around 90 AD. Antiochus ruled around 165 BC which was before the supposed time of Jesus. Most Bible scholars don't recognize a messiah coming at the end of time in Daniel. They believe the writer of Daniel only believed in a Kingdom of God. They believe where it says "coming in the clouds like a son of man" refers to the Kingdom of God or the world ruled by Israel being Israel personified. "Like a son of man" means a man. In other words, the Kingdom of God would not be symbolized as a beast like the previous 4 empires, it would by symbolized by a man. When Daniel refers to a messiah, the writer is talking about an annointed one. It refers to Cyrus, king of Persia, as the messiah. Isaiah referred to Cyrus as the messiah because he freed the Jewish captives and allowed them to rebuild their temple. At another place where the messiah is cut down, it refers to Onias (spelling?) as he was the high priest and was killed by Antiochus. Messiah means "anointed one". The Jews believed that any king or high priest was anointed and therefore was a messiah.

"You are a Liberal, Herb, just a 'sleeping Liberal' who hasnt awoke to that fact. "

There are 4 basic political points of view which can be futher broken down in sub-catagories. There are conservatives, populists, liberals, and libertarians. Libertarians agree with liberals on social issues and with conservatives on fiscal issues. We start from the premise of individual freedom. We believe that people should be free to do with their lives and property and money as they choose as long as we don't use force or fraud against others. Conservatives have historically been in favor of a non-interventionist foreign policy. That seems to have changed with the William Buckley cold warriors. Read William Kauffman's new book "Ain't My America". I would like to see the Republican Party return to those principles. That's a big reason I want McCain to be defeated, to teach the Republicans the lesson they should have learned in 2006 when they lost control of Congress.

"intolerant, and hostile to opposing views"

That doesn't describe you?

"esp. when they are losing a discussion"

I don't feel I am losing a discussion. We just have a disagreement on politics. I only excalated my rhetoric in response to your rhetoric such as telling me to "wake up" as if I'm asleep and that I'm too dumb to see your great wisdom.

Let's just agree to calm down and lighten up on the insults and just discuss the issues.

hey, can I call you a 'Liberal' and let you call me a "Neocon' as you keep doing?! J/K!

Yeah, I know all those 'dead' positions on scripture...but I had my 'understanding' many years ago B4 it all got published as official 'End-time Events!' Reading for myself, not needing any 'man' to interpret the scriptures for me. But I will leave the final individual beliefs per the following: "man operating in the futility of his mind---not by the Spirit of GOD.'

Peace out!

[Oh, BTW, when are we going to get together for that 'poker game?!' ha ha]

[Herb Schaffler]

"hey, can I call you a 'Liberal' and let you call me a "Neocon' as you keep doing?! J/K!"

You can call me a classical liberal. Libertarians were once called liberals, they still are in Europe. What we now call liberals in this country are called social democrats in Europe. Liberalism was a proud heritage in this country with such men as Jefferson and Madison all the way to Grover Cleveland. Then the term was hijacked by the New Deal Democrats. Conservatitism was also once a proud heritage before it was hijacked by the neocons and religious right. Men of that heritage were Barry Goldwater and Robert Taft. Those of the old right viewpoint are now called paleoconservatives such as Pat Buchanan and hrdman2please LOL.

"man operating in the futility of his mind---not by the Spirit of GOD.'

I'll let that go. I didn't want to get involved in a discussion of religion anyway, since this is a political site.

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

Those of the old right viewpoint are now called paleoconservatives such as Pat Buchanan and hrdman2please LOL.

"man operating in the futility of his mind---not by the Spirit of GOD.'

I'll let that go. I didn't want to get involved in a discussion of religion anyway, since this is a political site.

I may have to re-evaluate my opinion of your 'leanings,' I saw a glimmer of your sense of humor!! ha ha As on the Politics Forum over at the Report, the over whelming consensus was: "We are all biased, and nobody is going to change our points of view!' LOL

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by jamwadmag

.... BTW, I like you Herb, and dont take discussions personally...hope you are the same?!

By your 'deafening silence," I guess I have my answer...