Hillary Promises Universal Care

[nohil-billy]

I'm well aware of VA hospitals NH and have used them many times for outpatient care and once for emergency surgery, and to be quite honest with you, I found them to be more than adequate. This is not to say that the facility was on a par with a private hospital. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The building was in need of repair, there appeared to be a shortage of staff, and the caregivers had the personalities of the average DMV worker or postal clerk. And this is exactly what a national hospital would be like, assembly line medicine!

You know, we chide the democrats for knocking W's plans without offering other options or solutions. I'm offering one. I will not be so obtuse as to deny that we have a health care crises in this country. I'm just saying that we don't have to nationalize the whole dam*ned system to fix it. Regional hospitals would be an option. Build them in densely populated areas where they're sure to be needed most. Indigent patients could get treated on the cheap and the rest of us could have an option.

We have public and private education, why should we forfeit our health care options.

[Herb Schaffler]

There are plenty of good books out with free market solutions to our health care problems. This information needs to get out to the public so they know there are alternatives to socialized medicine. Too often, the public thinks the only solution is socialized medicine. They see what a mess we have now and are willing to try anything new for a change, hoping it will be better. They don't realize that it is Government meddling in health care that has caused the problem in the first place. If people shopped around for routine health care, the competition would bring prices and insurance costs down. The poor and elderly could receive vouchers for routine care. With these vouchers they could shop around for the best prices and pocket the money they don't spend. If private consumers and companies didn't pay for insurance premiums out of pre-tax funds and went to lower priced high deductable and catastophic policies, we would shop around for our routine care. As it stands now, patients are not the customers of the doctors and the hospitals, the big insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid are. Medical people know they can get the money from big insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid so they charge through the nose. If the public shopped around for routine care, which they would if they were directly responsible for paying for it, the patients would become the customers again and prices would come down. High deductible and catastrophic policies would be much cheaper. Imagine how high auto insurance would be if it paid for routine maintenance such as oil changes.

[NoHitlery]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

I'm well aware of VA hospitals NH and have used them many times for outpatient care and once for emergency surgery, and to be quite honest with you, I found them to be more than adequate. This is not to say that the facility was on a par with a private hospital. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The building was in need of repair, there appeared to be a shortage of staff, and the caregivers had the personalities of the average DMV worker or postal clerk. And this is exactly what a national hospital would be like, assembly line medicine!

You know, we chide the democrats for knocking W's plans without offering other options or solutions. I'm offering one. I will not be so obtuse as to deny that we have a health care crises in this country. I'm just saying that we don't have to nationalize the whole dam*ned system to fix it. Regional hospitals would be an option. Build them in densely populated areas where they're sure to be needed most. Indigent patients could get treated on the cheap and the rest of us could have an option.

We have public and private education, why should we forfeit our health care options.

Why spen more money on "regional hospitals"? Hospitals as thoses that know about the economics of health care are an economic looser. That is why as many things as possible are done on an outpatient basis. We have more than enough unused hospital beds at the present time. I say close down the VA completely, privatize those facilities that aren't demolished and offer Veterans the same insurance plan that Congress gets. One thing certain what ever form of change is made, and I agree there needs to be some changes, Congress must receive the exact same health care and nothing more!

[NoHitlery]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

There are plenty of good books out with free market solutions to our health care problems. This information needs to get out to the public so they know there are alternatives to socialized medicine. Too often, the public thinks the only solution is socialized medicine. They see what a mess we have now and are willing to try anything new for a change, hoping it will be better. They don't realize that it is Government meddling in health care that has caused the problem in the first place. If people shopped around for routine health care, the competition would bring prices and insurance costs down. The poor and elderly could receive vouchers for routine care. With these vouchers they could shop around for the best prices and pocket the money they don't spend. If private consumers and companies didn't pay for insurance premiums out of pre-tax funds and went to lower priced high deductable and catastophic policies, we would shop around for our routine care. As it stands now, patients are not the customers of the doctors and the hospitals, the big insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid are. Medical people know they can get the money from big insurance companies, Medicare, and Medicaid so they charge through the nose. If the public shopped around for routine care, which they would if they were directly responsible for paying for it, the patients would become the customers again and prices would come down. High deductible and catastrophic policies would be much cheaper. Imagine how high auto insurance would be if it paid for routine maintenance such as oil changes.

FIVE STAR POST! On the money!

[titivillus2]

Yesterday I listened to a rather long winded sound bite by the veracity challenged Hillary Clinton who had the audacity to claim that her health program is not a large government program. We need a reality check here: Not a large government program though monitored by the government to the tune of one billion dollars. What would shrill hill consider a large government program? It would require a suspension of disbelief to swallow anything this powerful parasite cites.
The redundancy of this program is overwhelming as health care is available to most working Americans and to all people living on government subsidies (read welfare here) and NY state, the state that she proports to represent, has sliding fee programs that address health care to families of four earning up to 50,000 dollars per annum. She should have checked out “healthy families” and other state sponsored health programs before making these outrageous statements. I have worked in NY state and MA as a social worker advocate and have never had anyone turned down for health care even if in a means tested system a partial payment was required. One of the many problems plaguing Ms Clinton is her apparent inability to change her position on anything: This is a prime example.

[asdfg]

Hello,

I am a 34 year military veteran, and military/va medical sucks, but in the military and as a present expatriate living and working in Italy, I have had first hand experience in the
health care in UK, France, Spain, and Italy for 5 years. Just like any system, yes they are
drawbacks, good and bad, in USA and abroad. To be perfectly honest, I have absolutely
no complaints about the Italian Socialized Medical System I presently use. I drive 15 Kilometers to an ultra modern hospital, private beds, TV, private bathroom of course,
meals are not served on trays, they set a tablecloth, use china, offer you a menu every day to select the next days meal, they have a woman who comes around to your room with a cart offering hot tea, expresso, juice, milk. My wife was diagnosed in the USA with a mass on her thyroid, and said half of her thriod needed to be removed. My wife saw three different ENT surgeons in the USA, didn't like any of them, was treated like herded
cattle, the doctor only spent a few minutes with her. So unsatisfied, she returned to Italy,
we found a professor at the Italian hospital that actually taught Thyroid surgery, he spent over an hour talking to us and telling us every detail, even some of the complications that can occur. My wife had the surgery, and the hospital made sure there was an english speaking person there at all times. They even had a plastic surgeon, do the closure, to make sure there was minimal scarring. She spent 5 days in the hospital, nurses came in lwhen rang, food was great, surgery was great, nurses was great. And the best thing of all is that they took the time to talk to you and did not get in a hurry, and best of all, the total bill for everything, hospital, doctor, drugs, was less than $2300.00 dollars, ( I am not an Italian resident) or it would have been free, except for the food, and now they
run blood tests on my wife every 3 months, preventative medicine, to make sure they don't have to adjust her medication. So don't believe that all social medicine is bad. Now I will have to admit, another Italian hospital that is closer is run a lot more like a General Hospital, and is the hospital where a lot of the elderly, poor go, but all Italians get free medical treatment, and have access to health care, free medicine. And just to let you know, I am a mechanic, blue collar worker. Italy is like anywhere in the world, if you have money, you can always buy better medical treatment, but the best thing about socialized medicine is that you can get treatment, any where any time, at little or no cost. I pay 92,00 euro about 125.00 dollars for a cat scan here in Italy, my medicine is exactly the same that I have in the use for about a 1/6th of the cost. All countries that have socialized medicine usually have companies submit bids, and lowest price wins. If you are homeless, jobless, have no insurance, and more often than not, terminally ill, and in the USA you are screwed. I love the USA, but now I have diabetis, and nerve damage in one of my legs,
where I work in Italy, I have access to a doctor that looks after the employees, and retirees, families, and even though I am not a resident, I and my family pay nothing, and
we can call the doctor at home if we have an emergency, and in Italy you do not have to have a prescription for drugs like antibiotics, can walk into the pharmacy with a sinus infection, and the pharmasist gives me what I need, I usually pay 6.00 euro for a box of
24 antibiotics. So don't believe everything you hear about socialized medicine, I plan on retiring here just for the sole fact in a year, I can get my Italian resident card and then I pay nothing forever. If I get cancer, I'm treated, if I break a leg I'm treated, if I have to
get s medicine, it is free. The govt and health care companies do not want us to have free universal health care, if we took insurance companies out of the picture, and every thing we pay in premiums plus the billions the govt spends, every us citizen could get treatment, would a lot of it ne first rate, probably not, but do you think the homeless, jobless, poor, terminally ill, would rather have treatment of have no treatment at all. Of course, we could keep the insurance companies, and those who can afford the premiums could get better care.
So with Hillary Care right around the corner, govt mandated healthcare, insurance companies who will not treat you cause you are high risk, which I allready fall into that
catagory, and have been turned down for medical insurance in the USA, I think I will stay
here in Italy, and smile every time I go to the doctor or hospital, cause I am fortunate
enough to live somewhere that I can get medical treatment weather I have insurance or not.

[Herb Schaffler]

But what happens when you have a diagnostic test or operation that you need, but because of shortage of diagnostic test equipment, doctors, hospitals, hospital beds, etc., you have to be put on a waiting list and just hope you don't die before you get that operation or diagnostic test?

[titivillus2]

I am happy that you have found a medical utopia in Italy however, You did not mention that people die in italy in ambulances in hospital parking lots because there is a dearth of beds in this socialized medical system. When visiting Italy I have spoken to people about this issue and they respond that when a service is free one needs more hospitals that are now available. In our system the homeless and nonworking persons are served because it is means tested. Hospital social worker, of which I was one, do the paperwork to insure medical treatment is paid for and not by the patient. monies are also available through hill burton and other grant type programs which is mentioned even in emergency room for the uninsured. Hospitals who do not access hill burton monies or turn people away are excluded from federal monies. medicaid, not medicare, is a comprehensive health care package and provides care for people living (existing ) on welfare. Though I have never been ill in italy I have had treatment in Canada as we have a cottage in Ontario. because we pay out of pocket we have been placed at the head of the line in the canadian system as I am sure is your experience in europe. In a system where no citizen pays anything any payment is desirable.our neighbors,Canadian citizens, have waited up to a year for non-emergency surgery ( knee replacements) learning to live with the pain. Our system is costly but one of the reasons is the autonomy given the patient in requesting treatment and appliances. when I was a social worker, in a hospital, a grossly obese man was turned down for an electric wheel chair which his condition did not merit but he WANTED one when a manual wheel chair was more appropriate for his needs. after a year he lost considerable weight due to the fact that he had to shlep himself around. granting him his request would probably have killed him. things are not always as they appear. Our system is not perfect but it is not broken and does not need fixing to the tune of 110 billion dollars.

Originally Posted by asdfg

Hello,

I am a 34 year military veteran, and military/va medical sucks, but in the military and as a present expatriate living and working in Italy, I have had first hand experience in the
health care in UK, France, Spain, and Italy for 5 years. Just like any system, yes they are
drawbacks, good and bad, in USA and abroad. To be perfectly honest, I have absolutely
no complaints about the Italian Socialized Medical System I presently use. I drive 15 Kilometers to an ultra modern hospital, private beds, TV, private bathroom of course,
meals are not served on trays, they set a tablecloth, use china, offer you a menu every day to select the next days meal, they have a woman who comes around to your room with a cart offering hot tea, expresso, juice, milk. My wife was diagnosed in the USA with a mass on her thyroid, and said half of her thriod needed to be removed. My wife saw three different ENT surgeons in the USA, didn't like any of them, was treated like herded
cattle, the doctor only spent a few minutes with her. So unsatisfied, she returned to Italy,
we found a professor at the Italian hospital that actually taught Thyroid surgery, he spent over an hour talking to us and telling us every detail, even some of the complications that can occur. My wife had the surgery, and the hospital made sure there was an english speaking person there at all times. They even had a plastic surgeon, do the closure, to make sure there was minimal scarring. She spent 5 days in the hospital, nurses came in lwhen rang, food was great, surgery was great, nurses was great. And the best thing of all is that they took the time to talk to you and did not get in a hurry, and best of all, the total bill for everything, hospital, doctor, drugs, was less than $2300.00 dollars, ( I am not an Italian resident) or it would have been free, except for the food, and now they
run blood tests on my wife every 3 months, preventative medicine, to make sure they don't have to adjust her medication. So don't believe that all social medicine is bad. Now I will have to admit, another Italian hospital that is closer is run a lot more like a General Hospital, and is the hospital where a lot of the elderly, poor go, but all Italians get free medical treatment, and have access to health care, free medicine. And just to let you know, I am a mechanic, blue collar worker. Italy is like anywhere in the world, if you have money, you can always buy better medical treatment, but the best thing about socialized medicine is that you can get treatment, any where any time, at little or no cost. I pay 92,00 euro about 125.00 dollars for a cat scan here in Italy, my medicine is exactly the same that I have in the use for about a 1/6th of the cost. All countries that have socialized medicine usually have companies submit bids, and lowest price wins. If you are homeless, jobless, have no insurance, and more often than not, terminally ill, and in the USA you are screwed. I love the USA, but now I have diabetis, and nerve damage in one of my legs,
where I work in Italy, I have access to a doctor that looks after the employees, and retirees, families, and even though I am not a resident, I and my family pay nothing, and
we can call the doctor at home if we have an emergency, and in Italy you do not have to have a prescription for drugs like antibiotics, can walk into the pharmacy with a sinus infection, and the pharmasist gives me what I need, I usually pay 6.00 euro for a box of
24 antibiotics. So don't believe everything you hear about socialized medicine, I plan on retiring here just for the sole fact in a year, I can get my Italian resident card and then I pay nothing forever. If I get cancer, I'm treated, if I break a leg I'm treated, if I have to
get s medicine, it is free. The govt and health care companies do not want us to have free universal health care, if we took insurance companies out of the picture, and every thing we pay in premiums plus the billions the govt spends, every us citizen could get treatment, would a lot of it ne first rate, probably not, but do you think the homeless, jobless, poor, terminally ill, would rather have treatment of have no treatment at all. Of course, we could keep the insurance companies, and those who can afford the premiums could get better care.
So with Hillary Care right around the corner, govt mandated healthcare, insurance companies who will not treat you cause you are high risk, which I allready fall into that
catagory, and have been turned down for medical insurance in the USA, I think I will stay
here in Italy, and smile every time I go to the doctor or hospital, cause I am fortunate
enough to live somewhere that I can get medical treatment weather I have insurance or not.

[Syz]

ASDFG is a good Hillary soldier and lacking credibility. If the socialized Italian medicine is the grand pooh bah, why did his wife come to America to get three obviously better medical determinations before going back to Italy. She could have had the same free care here that her fellowman pays for.

Health care is never free, it comes off the backs of the abused tax dollar by the leaders of any country to keep the "bread services" needed. Government control of any program is always against the benefit of the people. When you keep individuals poor when there is no need to do so, it should tell even the close to brain dead that they're being had.

[NoHitlery]

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