Hillary Clueless on Education!!!

[nohil-billy]

The Broom Rider has come out against another program that she voted for. This time it's No Child Left Behind. Though a study released last week showed that reading and math scores are up across the country due to No Child Left Behind, the Broom Rider feels that the program focuses too much on testing and stifles childrens creativity and expression.

When I attended Catholic grammar school in Chicago, our basic curriculum consisted of Reading, Writing, Math, Science and Social Studies, and we were tested often. Testing was a way to show the progress the students were making and in some cases, expose teachers that were inadequate at their jobs. Our creativity was saved for art and our free expression was met with a ruler across the knuckles. We consistently tested two to three years ahead of our public school counterparts.

Schools are for learning, they are not playgrounds or day care centers. What good is creativity and expression if you can't read or write? Doesn't it bother the Broom Rider that the National Spelling Bee is consistently won by children in private school or by those that are home schooled?

I saw on FNC the other day that the average teacher lasts about 3 years in the public school system before they give up and pursue another profession. This is what happens when you put the animals in charge of the zoo.


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[Herb Schaffler]

Of course Chelsea never had to go to public school. What a hypocrite Hillary is!

[PeroW-Cheney]

Understanding learning in a public education sytem is similar to economics because it is many different applied theories. These theories compete with eachother. For example, perhaps the latest and greatest program is Direct Instruction. It needs to compete with several other programs to get placed into the school's curiculum. Direct Instruction also needs to compete with bond issue and grant money that is set aside for inventing the school board's own program that closely copycats Direct Instruction. In the end, the best program needs to invest in the R&D and also needs to supply the most money to the school board's budget, or else it will not get adopted by the school system.

[nohil-billy]

HUH!

PWC, I have no idea what you're talking about except that it sounds like a bunch of gobbledy-gook as to why the public school system is failing. Why do we need programs and specific theories? Teach the children math, english, science, and social studies, ie the basics, and let them create and express themselves later.

When I was in Catholic grammar school, we had six rows of seats with eight seats in each row and a waiting list as long as your arm. Yet we not only learned, we excelled. We blew our counterparts in the public school system away. Why do you think that many public school teachers send their kids to private or Catholic schools.

Is the latest and greatest program, "Direct Learnng," any better than the last latest and greatest programs, "Whole Reading," or "Ebonics?" Why tinker with success? Do I give a da*n if my child knows why Bobby has two mommies? No! I want my child to know how to read and write.

Teach the kids the basics and let them make social decisions later on when they can formulate a coherent opinion. I don't want my kids indoctrinated by a bunch of liberals who want to dumb them down so they'll be more malleable to the socialist cause.


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[PeroW-Cheney]

Yeah, I married a public school teacher and therefore my social circle includes alot of teachers. The learning programs and texts seem to be in constant turmoil from one year to the next because of this competition driven by chasing the grant money (and pocket padding). I'm convinced that not one thing gets into a school until after somebody gets paid off.

I guess I also see the problem at the local administration level, just as much as bad teachers. I agree, pick one program and stick with it. You're right. My public high school English book was more than twenty years old when it was handed to me. What's wrong with that? However, if I was on the board, I'd see 20 year old texts as a problem. Or I should say an opportunity to see who offers me the best cash value to replace those books. I guarrantee I'd get calls, trips and political manuevering from publishers. Publishers look at the country's public education markets with a war room strategy just like political parties plot to conquer electoral votes. Ypu can get some really nice swag when you are elected to a public school board.

As far as I'm concerned, what the heck do kids need computers in the classrooms for? Teachers? Okay. But there are so many unintended consequences to putting computers at every student's desk that I blame Microsoft Word's spellchecker utility and calculators for a major portion of the problems with education today. I say, forget the computers and give the teachers a working copy machine in each room, instead. Leave the computer skills for vocational education.

[nohil-billy]

Aside from the learning programs and texts, what irks me the most is the public schools' constant tinkering and experimenting with new programs that don't work while dismissing the old ones that do.

I used to babysit my best friends two little girls, ages 5 & 9, after school. The 5 year old was getting ready to enter kindergarten and dearly wanted to learn how to read. I ordered her the Hooked on Phonics program and popped the introductory CD into the computer and off she went. Within weeks she completed the beginners CD and was capable of reading all the short storybooks included in the set. Today, a year later, she is hooked on reading and capable of sounding out most words she encounters in books beyond the third grade level. Yet check out the link below.

Dr. Reid Lyons, who advised the president on education during his first term, downplays the benefits of phonics even though it shows that the only gains in reading produced by NoChild Left Behind were in 4th grade reading scores that featured a heavy phonics component. Why will these people not let go of failed experimental programs and embrace the old, reliable, and proven standby's?


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[PeroW-Cheney]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

what irks me the most is the public schools' constant tinkering and experimenting with new programs that don't work while dismissing the old ones that do.

Another source of this tinkering is the university where a student will attend in order to get the teaching degree. If University of Oregon gets grant money to develop Direct Instruction, then all the graduates will be pre-disposed to teach within the parameters of Direct Instruction. The tinkering happens before the public school even hires the new teacher.

The last thing a school board wants is a program that works. The current motivation is to abuse the "cash cow" of taxpayer financed grant funds via self-justification. The cycle works like this: First, the education standards are changed. Then the schools can get research based funds to meet the new standard. It is easy to justify that the money is used for research. Buy a couple books and some papers and the entire grant qualifies as meeting the "research based" standard.

Once the research carries the current program up to the new standard, the money runs out. What do you do? Change the standards again! Public school disfunction is big money for the board. Entire departments of the administration exist solely for the purpose of collecting this revenue. All you need is one part time employee to run that kind of business model.

Generally speaking, I have a problem with taxpayer funded research grants as they are used by academia. It's not just affecting the schools. It also affects emerging technology. The theory is that new technologies create new jobs, but those jobs end up in Asia if the inventor runs his new business like the university chemistry department where he invented the new tech. Thanks to these grants, new technologies create new boards of directors who harvest licensing royalties from Chinese employers.

[lenahan]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

The Broom Rider has come out against another program that she voted for. This time it's No Child Left Behind. Though a study released last week showed that reading and math scores are up across the country due to No Child Left Behind, the Broom Rider feels that the program focuses too much on testing and stifles childrens creativity and expression.

When I attended Catholic grammar school in Chicago, our basic curriculum consisted of Reading, Writing, Math, Science and Social Studies, and we were tested often. Testing was a way to show the progress the students were making and in some cases, expose teachers that were inadequate at their jobs. Our creativity was saved for art and our free expression was met with a ruler across the knuckles. We consistently tested two to three years ahead of our public school counterparts.

Schools are for learning, they are not playgrounds or day care centers. What good is creativity and expression if you can't read or write? Doesn't it bother the Broom Rider that the National Spelling Bee is consistently won by children in private school or by those that are home schooled?

I saw on FNC the other day that the average teacher lasts about 3 years in the public school system before they give up and pursue another profession. This is what happens when you put the animals in charge of the zoo.



[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link.

I am a student. If school was for creativity, it be called creativity-building, not education. What next? Recess is for education, Lunch is to teach kids good nutrition? And we need those standardized tests. We coddle the kids who don't care and hold back those who do.

[lenahan]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

Aside from the learning programs and texts, what irks me the most is the public schools' constant tinkering and experimenting with new programs that don't work while dismissing the old ones that do.

I used to babysit my best friends two little girls, ages 5 & 9, after school. The 5 year old was getting ready to enter kindergarten and dearly wanted to learn how to read. I ordered her the Hooked on Phonics program and popped the introductory CD into the computer and off she went. Within weeks she completed the beginners CD and was capable of reading all the short storybooks included in the set. Today, a year later, she is hooked on reading and capable of sounding out most words she encounters in books beyond the third grade level. Yet check out the link below.

Dr. Reid Lyons, who advised the president on education during his first term, downplays the benefits of phonics even though it shows that the only gains in reading produced by NoChild Left Behind were in 4th grade reading scores that featured a heavy phonics component. Why will these people not let go of failed experimental programs and embrace the old, reliable, and proven standby's?


[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link.

Hooked on phonics worked great for me when I started kindergarten, a long time ago