Palin and her Pastor's Mixing of Religion and Politics

[Herb Schaffler]

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link.

[nohil-billy]

Herb, I know that you're an atheist so I wonder why you post these kinds of articles other than to play the devil's advocate. (An appropriate role for an atheist, I guess.)

There is nothing wrong with a pastor mixing politics with religion. A pastor is responsible for his congregation and if he ignores what is preached by politicians, his congregation could get contaminated by ideas that run contrary to the beliefs of the church.

If a church is pro-life, as most of them are, it would only follow that one would go to hell for supporting somebody who kills a baby as well as for killing a baby themselves. After all, criminal law provides a whole array of laws covering accesory before and after the fact.

The churches canon has absolutely nothing to do with civil law. Therefore no apology is necessary as far as their beliefs are concerned.

[Herb Schaffler]

For your information, nohil-billy, the Christian belief is salvation through faith. The Christian church doesn't teach salvation through works. As Paul said, "we are saved through faith, not by works lest any man should boast." It is obvious that you're not from a Christian background or otherwise you would know that her pastor's statements were way out of the mainstream of Christian belief. I remember also, you calling yourself an agnostic in an earlier thread. From my point of view, there isn't much difference between an agnostic and an atheist. Until fairly recently, I also called myself agnostic. I really don't consider my views to have changed much from what they were when I called myself agnostic. It seems like it's mostly a matter of sematics.

[nohil-billy]

Look up the definitions and you'll find them to be quite different, Herb.

Her pastors remarks are not way out of the mainstream. If abortion is against the law of that church and you are ###### to hell for having one, then all persons that allow abortion are also ###### in the eyes of that church. It's not pick and choose. Most Christian churches believe that though some aren't as outspoken or critical about it.

Your belief in the teachings of your church is what faith is all about.

[Herb Schaffler]

The Christian belief is that you are saved through your faith in Jesus. You are not sent to hell on the basis of your sins. Once again, it's obvious to me that you're not from a Christian background or you would have known that.

I'm well aware of the difference between an agnostic and an atheist, but they are both similar from the standpoint that they both reject the existance of God unless they have sufficient evidence for his existance.

[Herb Schaffler]

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link.

Not all Christians agree with Palin on foreign policy. Here's an example from an antiwar libertarian Christian, Jacob Hornberger whom I greatly admire.

[nohil-billy]

Herb, it's no wonder that you greatly admire him, he's as adept at taking things out of context as you are.

You are indeed saved by your faith in Jesus. Your salvation starts at "Believe and be baptized." Believing is only the first step. If it's your contention that you can merely believe and go to heaven, then you are sadly mistaken. Once you believe, you accept at face value the teachings of the bible
as interpreted by your pastor or your church. You then must adhere to the teachings as per their instructions.

If you think you can believe in Jesus "and then" go out and rape & pillage, again, you're sadly mistaken.

Now if you want a good example of "we are saved through faith, not by works lest any man should boast" you could look at Obama's relationship with his church. When denouncing pastor Wright, he reminded us that the church did a lot of good things in the community. So to Barack Obama, his church can spew all the vitriolic hatred it wants as long as they drop a food basket off on somebody's front porch every now and then.

As for the distinction between agnostics and atheists, you over simplify.

I believe that at least one supreme being or higher power exists. I don't know where or in what capacity. Though I was raised Catholic and have belonged to several different Protestant denominations, I have never felt that one particular canon stood out over another and I could never dismiss the existence of non-Christian Gods or non-Christian religious beliefs.

You, on the other hand, require a picture.

[Herb Schaffler]

I would say you're a deist, nohil-billy. Agnostics say there may be a god or there may not, but they won't committ to a belief in the existance of a god unless they have proof. A deist believes in a god as a creator, but doesn't necessarily believe in the reality of a particular religion. I commend you on your belief. Your belief allows for tolerance of other religions.

I'm an atheist because I don't see how dualism is possible. How can there be a spirit entity who thinks without a brain? How can there be a spirit entity who creates without physical hands?

We all have our own beliefs and I feel we should be free to hold those beliefs. I don't begrudge anybody the right to their beliefs, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Buhdist, Hindu, deist, agnostic, atheist or whatever. What scares me are intolerant people like Palin who have a holier than thou attitude who I'm sure will try to coerce her will on the public as she has done in the past. She feels she is doing God's will and doesn't seem to appreciate that this is a pluralistic society.

Incidentally, I used to be a religious kook like Palin, so I know where she's coming from and it scares me for somebody like that to be a heart beat away from the presidency. That's why I'm doubly determined now for McCain to lose.

[nohil-billy]

So far, except for the people who are making a big deal out of her religious beliefs, I've heard nothing to lead me to believe that Sarah Palin has any theological intentions whatsoever.

You state that we all have our own beliefs and we should be free to hold those beliefs, but this assertion rings hollow when she's being attacked for her religious convictions. We've had several presidents over the past 30 years who've had similar convictions to Sarah Palin, yet all the secular freedoms everybody holds so dear still exist.

[Herb Schaffler]

"So far, except for the people who are making a big deal out of her religious beliefs, I've heard nothing to lead me to believe that Sarah Palin has any theological intentions whatsoever. "

As I've said, I know the type, I was once of that frame of mind myself and I can guarantee you that if Palin becomes president, watch out!

"We've had several presidents over the past 30 years who've had similar convictions to Sarah Palin, yet all the secular freedoms everybody holds so dear still exist."

I can't think of any president in history who is the religious kook she is, not even George W. Bush.