Obama's Pastor Jeremiah Wright of Trinity Church

[Herb Schaffler]

"Yes Herb, I do believe that Obama favors a Muslim state"

I doubt that very seriously and I don't need to be wearing rose colored glasses to say that, I only need to have common sense.

[nohil-billy]

So you don't believe that Obama could favor a Muslim state but you can believe that Hillary would create a socialist state similar to Hitler's pre-war Germany or the Soviet Union. When it comes to Obama you show a definite rose-colored bias.

[Herb Schaffler]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

So you don't believe that Obama could favor a Muslim state but you can believe that Hillary would create a socialist state similar to Hitler's pre-war Germany or the Soviet Union. When it comes to Obama you show a definite rose-colored bias.

I have no illusions about Obama. I think both Hillary and Obama want to create a European socialist state in America and that's bad. The type of foreign policy that Bush and the neocons have been following is also bad and will be just as economically ruinous as European style socialism. It's a choice between two evils. Obama may be a little crooked like most politicians are. I don't believe McCain is all that honest either, but it's hard for me to see any politician rising to the level of corruption as the Clintons. After all is said and done, I believe Obama is the least of the three evils. If the race is close in Texas, I'll vote for Obama over McCain, otherwise, I'll vote Libertarian as I usually do.

[nohil-billy]

A little crooked? The man is a liar. Did you see in the debates how he defended his association with Bill Ayers by comparing it with his association to Sen. Tom Coburn. It was reprehensible at best, and reminded me of him comparing his pastor's remarks with those of his white grandmother.

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By the way, did you know that Obama's white grandmother never made that statement about black men? Just another lie!!!

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[Herb Schaffler]

As if McCain has a reputation of being truthful. Remember the lie he told in South Carolina in 2000 when he said that he considered the Confederate flag used as South Carolina's state flag as a symbol of heritage which was completely contrary to what he had said a few days previously that it was a symbol of racism. He was forced to explain the contradiction as a lie in order to get more votes in South Carolina.

What about all the questionable people that McCain hangs with such as Rick Renzi who was indicted for extortion, wire fraud, and money laundering stemming from a land swap scheme as well as for conspiracy to embezzle and misappropriate cliant premiums to fund his congressional campaign? What about McCain's former campaign manager Terry Nelson who was involved in Tom Delay's money laundering schemes, the phone jamming scandal perpetrated in 2002 to help Senator John Sununu defeat Governor Jeanne Shaheen, and involvement with Jack Abramoff. Nelson also implied that Harold Ford Jr. was bedding young white women during Ford's last campaign? What about Bob Allen, the former cochair of McCain's Florida campaign who was arrested for soliciting sex from an undercover police officer for $20? What about Congressman J.D. Hayworth whom McCain campaigned for and was endorsed by who spent $200,000 in campaign funds on legal fees to fend off a federal indictment for his role in Abramoff's scheme to bilk Native American tribes? If candidates are guilty by association, then people should vote against McCain on the basis of the seedy company he keeps.

Regarding Wright, look at the pastors that McCain hangs out with. McCain praised Falwell on Meet the Press and went on to deliver a commencement address at Falwell's Leberty University. Falwell, like Wright had his own controversial statements about 9/11. He blamed 9/11 on the pagans, the abortionists, the feminists, gays and lesbians, the ACLU, and People for the American Way. That was more extreme than anything Wright said. Falwell also said that the Anti-Christ would be Jewish. He also outed Tinky Winky of the Teletubbies as a homosexual because he was purple, the gay pride color and his antenna was shaped like a triangle, the gay pride symbol. McCain has also refused to disavow John Hagee who has called Catholicism "The Great Whore". Hagee has also advocated destroying Iran with nuclear weapons. Now, I don't believe McCain believes these things and shouldn't be assumed to believe these things just because he praised these two men, nor do I think we should assume Obama agrees with everything that Wright believes.

Regarding McCain's past corruption: Between 1982 and 1987, McCain accepted $112,000 in campaign contributions from Charles Keating. McCain, his family, and on occasion their babysitter made at least nine trips aboard a company jet of Keating's. One frequent destination was the Bahamas. According to House rules, McCain should have disclosed these flights, but he neglegted to do so until the scandal went public. Keating was investigated in 1987 for defrauding Lincoln Savings & Loan investors to the tune of $285 million. Keating got 5 of his political cronies to come to his defense of which one was McCain. McCain was later rebuked by the Senate Select Committee on Ethics, which McCain claimed was a "full exoneration". I believe McCains whole exercise in promoting campaign finance reform was to influence the public into believing he's an honest politician and ignore his earlier scandal.

McCain is a dishonest flip-flopping politician. He was always a non-interventionist on foreign policy more in the mode of Barry Goldwater. He was, like Barry Goldwater very opposed to the intolerance of the religious right. He was also pro-choice on abortion. He was also opposed to Bush's tax cuts. He has changed on all those issues now that he is running for President. In 2000, he ran as a moderate, seeing a niche for himself with Bush and Forbes dividing the conservative vote. Now, in trying to get conservative votes, he has completely switched on many issues. He is now very hawkish, courts the religious right, pro-life, and now supports the tax cuts. He also takes money from lobbyists like Hillary does and Obama doesn't. McCain is just another political opportunist like Hillary. I must say, even though I don't agree with Obama's support for big government, he comes across to me as being more honest than McCain and Hillary.

[nohil-billy]

I say let Obama bring all of this up and let's hear what McCain's response is. But Herb, you have to admit that Obama's comparisons hardly equate. Tom Coburn and Bill Ayers??
Jeremiah Wright and Grandma?? C'mon!!!

[Herb Schaffler]

The point is, should people be held accountable for the views of their aquaintances?

[nohil-billy]

So if he hung out with Osama bin Laden that's cool with you?

[Herb Schaffler]

There's a big difference in Osama bin Laden and Reverend Wright.

[nohil-billy]

I'm willing to bet that God Da*n America was probably uttered by both.