I'm a new member Jennifer

[Herb Schaffler]

Jennifer,

I agree with you on Iraq. However, Hillary gave Bush the ok to invade Iraq, although she is now backing away from it because she has lost so much of her support because of it.

In spite of what you think, Europe is not doing so well economically: 10% chronic unemployment, no new job creation.

Canada's health care system is so great that Canadians come to the US to get health care they would have to wait for in Canada. Some people in Canada are even talking about scrapping the system. People in countries with socialized medicine are often happy with their system because they mistakenly think they are getting it for free since they don't pay for it directly. They don't connect the dots. They don't realize their taxes are high largely because of the high costs of socialized medicine. The high taxes are the reason for the high unemployment. Not enough money is staying in the private sector to create jobs. It's going to the government to pay for all the bureauacracy of their big government system.

Not everybody in countries with socialized medicine like it. I know a woman from Holland who says that the elderly are rationed out of the system. Because of the rationing within socialized medicine, there is only so much money to go around. It is felt that the elderly have already lived their lives, so they are the ones to be rationed out of the system.

Crime rates are lower in Euope and Canada because of a lower minority population.

[jcscuba]

Originally Posted by I love Pink

What will Hillary do to be the savior of the world? I think we have one Savior already and he's in Heaven. As far has Hillary being more meddlesome than Ms. Rice, how can you say that when she has promised to end the war in Iraq immediately. I trust that you can back your assertion that gas costs $7.00 a gallon to finance health care in some European countries. Last time I checked they were all on the metric system. Their gas costs per liter is a truer reflection of it's supply and demand than the artificially deflated prices we have had due to our connections and relationship with the Saudis to keep the oil flowing and prices down for the U.S. and go against OPEC. They don't seem to be playing that game now and so we see rising prices, not for this reason alone, but because we have trouble refining crude oil in the U.S. and the demand for crude is up in the third world.

Your argument about something being free causes more use is rather weak. Who wants to go to the Dr. if they aren't sick? Air is free, do you breathe more? Water is free basically, do you drink more? The sun is free do you stay out in it all day? Give people a little more credit. You buy into too many Neo-Con myths. I'm supporting Hillary because she will end the war immediately, she is really very smart, has a great deal of background and has learned from her first attempt with health care to make it more private sector. A country as good as the U.S. that blows money all over the world with a bankrupt foreign policy of giving money away to third world dictators to buy them off for the reason de jur can certainly afford to use that money to provide health care for all Americans.

Wow Jennifer: You seem reasonably educated and knowledgeable, where did you go to school? You sound like you understand basic economics, but you are way off on the free stuff with health care. It's a shame that an intelligent woman like you isn't a Republican. I look forward to an open discussion in the hope that I or members of the forum can change your vote. I'm not being patronizing here, but I really don't think you have looked into what a terribly evil person Hillary is. If you read some of my posts, and I've referenced all quotes by Hillary, can you really tell me that you would want her to be President of our country? Keep it coming, the last liberal woman that was on the board is sitting in a corner some where sucking her thumb. She had the same mind set as you. You seem able to hold your own. I'd vote for a woman, even you Jennifer, sight unseen, after you get a little more "education":-) before Hillary

[Herb Schaffler]

Jennifer,
I didn't say Hillary would be more of a foreign meddler than Condi. They both, like most Republicans and Democrats meddle too much overseas. The only reason Hillary is calling for an end to the war in Iraq is because she sees how unpopular it has become. She only supported it in the first place to establish herself as a centrist. She is all about politics. Hillary would meddle in foreign policy. Do you think somebody with her ego would be satisfied to rule only America? No, like the neo-conservatives, she will want to rule the world. By the way, I'm not a neocon, I hate them. I'm a libertarian.

Gas prices in Europe don't reflect supply and demand more than ours. They pay higher prices for gas than we do entirely due to taxes. I didn't say that all their gas taxes go to paying for socialized medicine, just a substantial portion of it.

What's wrong with keeping the oil flowing and prices down? That benefits all of us worldwide.

We have trouble refining crude oil in the US because no new refineries have been built since the 1970's because of the greenies.

I didn't say people go to the doctor if they're not sick. There are some sicknesses that people would treat on their own if they had to pay out of pocket. When their taxes pay for their health care, they try to get their money's worth by overusing the system. Hillary has learned from her mistake in trying to do too much at one time in bringing us socialized medicine. She is now a supporter of Fabian socialism, that is, to gradually ease us into it. The end result will be the same.

[I love Pink]

Mr. Schaffler: You said: Gas prices in Europe don't reflect supply and demand more than ours. They pay higher prices for gas than we do entirely due to taxes. I didn't say that all their gas taxes go to paying for socialized medicine, just a substantial portion of it. Can you document that?

What's wrong with keeping the oil flowing and prices down? That benefits all of us worldwide. So you are for price controls? What type of capitalism is that?

As far as your assertion that no refineries have been built because of "greenies". That is pure bunk, refineries aren't being built or maintained in the U.S. so the Bush Big Oil Boys can earn incredible profits while they artificially inflate prices due to "supposed supply and demand"

Hillary would not be a meddler in foreign affairs, she would get us out of the horrible war we started and use that money for Health Care and to rebuild the infrastructure of the country. Our roads , our bridges, our damns are a mess. As a libertarian, all you think about is your supposed freedom, keeping your money, not paying taxes , and building a strong military industrial complex. It's time we have a woman with the vision of Hillary Clinton run this country with a Democratic House and Senate she will once again restore America to it's proper place in the world. The rest of the world, or most of it hates George Bush and his policies. Hillary will surround herself with smart people, not a bunch of idiots from Texas and make a much brighter tomorrow for future generations. She will also do wonders to slow global warming.

[I love Pink]

Originally Posted by Irish_4boys

Jennifer - they weren't fighting under saddam because they were getting slaughtered and they were terrified. And you are dreaming if you don't think that it is the terrorists over there behind all the killings now. I think Iran is a bigger worry now, but we need to finish in Iraq first.
I am so glad your freinds have nice teeth- My husband grew up in Ireland and we have had to pay a lot of money for him to get nice teeth. He has told me horror stories and we will never live over there as much as we love it. What is so wrong with the American people actually paying for their own health care?
As far as crime goes maybe you should vote for some conservative judges that actually put criminals behind bars...

People lived in relative peace and tranquility under Saddam you are buying into the Neo-Con myth about what a horrible place it was when he was in power. I don't say he shouldn't be gone because he was evil, but no more evil than George Bush who is killing way more Iraqi's since he started his war. Sorry about your husband's friends teeth.

[Herb Schaffler]

Jennifer,

My information about gas prices in Europe comes from "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming & Environmentalism" by Christopher Horner. Can you document that Europe's gas prices reflect supply and demand more than ours?

I'm not for price controls. Price controls are set by the government, not the free market. If the Saudis are putting more oil on the market to increase supplies and therefore linfluence the price to come down in order to sell more oil, that is not artifically setting prices. This is what all companies do, increase supplies to bring down prices and sell more. Everybody benefits. It is only when the government rigs the market in some way through protective tariffs, price controls, and subsidies that you don't have a free market.

I see you have your own conspiracy theory. You say the Bushs' have not allowed any new refineries to be built to keep the prices of gasoline high. Do you have any proof of this? Where are the executive orders declaring that there can be no more refineries built? Are the Clintons in on this conspiracy also because they didn't build any refineries when they were in office?

You keep talking about that horrible war. It was a war that Hillary voted for so she is just as responsible for getting us in it. She could have voted agaist it like other Democrats like Barbara Boxer and Republicans like Ron Paul. You don't know much about libertarians, do you? Libertarians are opposed to building too large a military industrial complex. We believe in only having a military large enough to provide for our defence, not to go meddling all over the world as the neo-conservatives do and Hillary would do.

It has not been proven that global warming will be all that serious or that man has contributed significantly to it or can do anything to significantly reduce it at no great cost. The McCain-Liberman bill would have cost a cumulative GDP loss to 2025 of 1-1/3 trillion dollars and would have only cut temperatures from .023 degress C to .04 degrees C by 2050. Fortunately, Congress had the good sense to reject it. We should not destroy the economy for something that would not even be of that much benefit, especially when it has not been proven that global warming needs to be addressed. Global warming is cyclical and there is no proof that the 2% CO2 that is man's contribution to the CO2 in the atmosphere has contributed anything significant to the greenhouse effect or global warming.

[oz007]

Jennifer ,you Sound Like Chelsea In Disquise - -let Bring It On No One Can Shine Margret Thacthers Shoes ...conde Rice Could Be Anybodies President Along With A Host Of Women Congressmen ,and Wildly Popular Governors Like Jodi Rell Of Ct >>>>>>>>..hillary With All Due Respect Thinks She Has A ##### Between Her Legs And Acts That Way - -the Only Way This Will Happen Is If A Man Puts It There And None Not Even Bill Is Up To The Chore...not Even Knowing You - -you Would Have My Vote

[I love Pink]

Originally Posted by oz007

Jennifer ,you Sound Like Chelsea In Disquise - -let Bring It On No One Can Shine Margret Thacthers Shoes ...conde Rice Could Be Anybodies President Along With A Host Of Women Congressmen ,and Wildly Popular Governors Like Jodi Rell Of Ct >>>>>>>>..hillary With All Due Respect Thinks She Has A ##### Between Her Legs And Acts That Way - -the Only Way This Will Happen Is If A Man Puts It There And None Not Even Bill Is Up To The Chore...not Even Knowing You - -you Would Have My Vote

Mr. Oz I've read many of your other replies with interest. Is it really in the best interest of this forum to demonstrate your lack of intelligence by using so many expletives that the actual intention of your message is lost? You sound like a easily intimidated, scared to death of a powerful woman, white male. If you want to bring it on, do so with class after you have washed your mouth out with soap and stood in the corner. Then take a time out, my best, Jennifer.

[I love Pink]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

Jennifer,

My information about gas prices in Europe comes from "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming & Environmentalism" by Christopher Horner. Can you document that Europe's gas prices reflect supply and demand more than ours?

I'm not for price controls. Price controls are set by the government, not the free market. If the Saudis are putting more oil on the market to increase supplies and therefore linfluence the price to come down in order to sell more oil, that is not artifically setting prices. This is what all companies do, increase supplies to bring down prices and sell more. Everybody benefits. It is only when the government rigs the market in some way through protective tariffs, price controls, and subsidies that you don't have a free market.

I see you have your own conspiracy theory. You say the Bushs' have not allowed any new refineries to be built to keep the prices of gasoline high. Do you have any proof of this? Where are the executive orders declaring that there can be no more refineries built? Are the Clintons in on this conspiracy also because they didn't build any refineries when they were in office?

You keep talking about that horrible war. It was a war that Hillary voted for so she is just as responsible for getting us in it. She could have voted agaist it like other Democrats like Barbara Boxer and Republicans like Ron Paul. You don't know much about libertarians, do you? Libertarians are opposed to building too large a military industrial complex. We believe in only having a military large enough to provide for our defence, not to go meddling all over the world as the neo-conservatives do and Hillary would do.

It has not been proven that global warming will be all that serious or that man has contributed significantly to it or can do anything to significantly reduce it at no great cost. The McCain-Liberman bill would have cost a cumulative GDP loss to 2025 of 1-1/3 trillion dollars and would have only cut temperatures from .023 degress C to .04 degrees C by 2050. Fortunately, Congress had the good sense to reject it. We should not destroy the economy for something that would not even be of that much benefit, especially when it has not been proven that global warming needs to be addressed. Global warming is cyclical and there is no proof that the 2% CO2 that is man's contribution to the CO2 in the atmosphere has contributed anything significant to the greenhouse effect or global warming.

Mr. Schaffler: I'm sure you are aware that the Politically Correct Guide Global Warming and Environmentalism is published by Regnery Publications, a right wing publishing company. Have you Googled Christopher Horner and seen the tripe he writes? This is the same company that brings us the Politically Incorrect Guide to American History, as well as The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam. All of the author' have a single view.

Re the Saudis they have had from time to time a "sweetheart" arrangement selling us Oil at a preferred rate to keep prices down in the U.S. Same as Saddam did with France and Germany in the Oil for food "scandal" In that sense all of these governments mentioned, the U.S. included are getting below market crude. I didn't say that the Bush's didn't allow new refinery's to be built, you are putting words in my mouth. I said the current economic climate for oil is favorable to Big Oil and the Bush Family, as it has been for every President.

You are correct, I don't know as much as I should about the Libertarian party but I believe I have the nuts and bolts of them down and a vote for Ron Paul, be my guest, it will just help us with Hillary.

The War is Horrible and Hillary has had many positions I'll grant you that but when she said "As Your President I'll have us out of Iraq" I believe her. Quite frankly I agree with you on Global warming and I'm not that disturbed about it. But just in case isn't it about time for somebody to stand up like JFK did for putting man on the moon and say enough with Middle Eastern Oil. By the year 21150-20 we will have used our scientific knowhow to get us off this liquid that seems to be the reason for war? Hillary could do that with a Democratic House and Senate. Of course in order to get re-elected she will triangulate like Bill did and move to the middle offering tax incentives for alternative fuels. It won't be tax increases, it just won't be going to oil companies in the way of subsidies and tax breaks. Well it's about 6:15AM here in Phuket, Thailand I'm having a good time with you folks and appreciate you listening to me and your points of view.

[oz007]

jennifer it is an honor and a pleasure to receive a reply from such an accomplished person........i did not nor would i ever say or write anything to you ...directed at you in any way that migth require the sligthest editing ....i actual detect a very sensible person between the lines --with just one major tell tale error ---you would have this country take profits from a corporation to spend as a government - -thats what you said --- THINK ABOUT IT --DO YOU REALLY THINK ALL THAT GENTIELE FEM INNOCENT WORDING WHICH "I LIKE "ABOUT YOU IS GOING TO MAKE THIS AUDIENCE SWALLOW ,(WHICH BY THE WAY IS THE BIRD OF TRUE LOVE ) OR DIGEST RATHER****SUCH RADICAL IDEAS / MORON IS ONE STEP BELOW STUPID --YOU DON'T MAYBE SUSPECT THAT THOSE TAXES WILL SHOW UP AT THE PUMP PRICE --NOT TO MENTION THE COST OF RESEARCH AND EXPLORATION ? BOB PS. MY FATHER WAS A BLUE MAN AND I'D LOVE TO TAKE YOU FOR A RIDE ON MY HORSE RANCH BEFORE I AM FORCED TO SELL IT - -IN ORDER TO PAY FOR YOUR LEVY OF TAXES ON OIL COMPANIES --I HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH THOSE ROYAL ANIMALS