I'd Rather Have Hillary than Obama!!

[nohil-billy]

I don't know what polls you're looking at Herb, but the last one I saw had Hillary over McCain by 9 and McCain over Obama by 2.

I'm no more of a Hillary fan than you are Herb, only your solution to beating the wicked witch of the west is to drag the wicked witch of the east out from under the house and revive her. Your hatred of Hillary has blinded you to the deception that is Barack Obama.

At least most Americans are starting to get it. In a Rasmussen survey, 58% believe Barack Obama denounced his pastor for political expediency while an even smarter 56% believe Obama shares some of his pastors views.

Like Rush Limbaugh, I support watching Hillary and Obama fight it out to a bloody conclusion at the convention. Somebody will be disenfranchised regardless of the outcome and the party will have but a short amount of time to bring them all back together. While I'm not a huge McCain fan, I do believe he will be better for this country then anything the Democrats have to offer.

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link.

[Herb Schaffler]

"I don't know what polls you're looking at Herb, but the last one I saw had Hillary over McCain by 9 and McCain over Obama by 2."

The poll you are referring to is is the AP poll. The Zogby poll has Hillary below McCain by 10 points and has Obama over McCain by 3 points. It was taken around the same time as the AP poll. The Zogby poll is based on around 5 or 6 thousand pollees which is a very large poll. It has a 1.1 point margin of error whereas most polls have a 3 or 4 point margin of error. Zogby has also been historically one of the most accurate polls. They predicted that Hillary would win in Pennsylvania by 10 points. They predicted on the day before the 2000 election that Gore would win the popular vote by 1 point. They were the most accurate pollster on the 1996 election as well. I've heard Rush call them the most accurate pollster and Sean has Zogby frequently on his radio program.

"At least most Americans are starting to get it. In a Rasmussen survey, 58% believe Barack Obama denounced his pastor for political expediency while an even smarter 56% believe Obama shares some of his pastors views."

And they can also be wrong.

[nohil-billy]

Herb, why is it so hard for you to believe that someone other than Hillary can have ulterior motives. I was driving to work when I heard that Obama had denounced his pastor and the first thing that crossed my mind was that it was all a show to boost his sagging numbers. A local talk show followed the news and the first caller expressed the same suspicions. You seem to disbelieve everything uttered by Hillary but take everything said by Obama at face value.

I watch FNC, read the weekly Standard, National Review, and the American Spectator, and listen to talk radio. Many of my opinions are formulated by what I read, hear, and who I've associated with. My bet is that your opinions are formulated in much the same way.

Yet you are willing to chalk up all the negative aspects of Obama's past to "guilt by association." You can believe that he sat in Reverend Wrights church for 20 years and was never influenced by a thing the man said. The man once embraced the Nation of Islam himself and later chose a pastor who is also a former Black Muslim and whose preachings are more along the lines of the Nation of Islam than Christianity. And again, "guilt by association." You're only kidding yourself Herb.

I'll give you a heads up on what's coming next Herb and remember you heard it here first. Obama insisted that he was going to stay with the church as Reverend Wright was retiring, and he gave the new pastor a glowing review. Well Herb, the new guy's just as bad and will also become an issue. Do you see a pattern developing yet?

[Herb Schaffler]

"Herb, why is it so hard for you to believe that someone other than Hillary can have ulterior motives. I was driving to work when I heard that Obama had denounced his pastor and the first thing that crossed my mind was that it was all a show to boost his sagging numbers. A local talk show followed the news and the first caller expressed the same suspicions. You seem to disbelieve everything uttered by Hillary but take everything said by Obama at face value."

Where did you get this idea, nohil-billy? I've never said any of that.

"I watch FNC, read the weekly Standard, National Review, and the American Spectator, and listen to talk radio. Many of my opinions are formulated by what I read, hear, and who I've associated with. My bet is that your opinions are formulated in much the same way. "

They are, but unlike you, I don't limit myself to only one point of view. I read libertarian, conservative, and liberal publications. I watch Fox and Friends in the morning. I used to listen to Sean on radio on the way home until I got sick of listening to the airhead.

"Yet you are willing to chalk up all the negative aspects of Obama's past to "guilt by association." You can believe that he sat in Reverend Wrights church for 20 years and was never influenced by a thing the man said. The man once embraced the Nation of Islam himself and later chose a pastor who is also a former Black Muslim and whose preachings are more along the lines of the Nation of Islam than Christianity. And again, "guilt by association." You're only kidding yourself Herb."

When I read publications all the time that I agree with some of the things they say and don't agree with some of the other things they say. I'm not necessarily influenced by the things that I disagree with. I have a mind of my own just as Obama does. I can see him going to a church for 20 years and not necessarily being influenced by everything he hears. I can see why you only listen and read conservative data if you are so easily swayed by everything you read and hear. You're afraid that opposing views might rub off on you. Just because you have a weak mind, doesn't mean that everybody does.

"I'll give you a heads up on what's coming next Herb and remember you heard it here first. Obama insisted that he was going to stay with the church as Reverend Wright was retiring, and he gave the new pastor a glowing review. Well Herb, the new guy's just as bad and will also become an issue. Do you see a pattern developing yet?"

No, he won't be going to that church, he'll be going to one in Washington for the next 4 or 8 years.

[nohil-billy]

I limit myself to a point of view I am most in tune with. I used to watch CNN and network news, and I read the morning newspaper religiously until discovering that I was being lied to all my life by the MSM. So why continue to waste my time on the mindless drivel spewed by the liberal media.

I'm comfortable being a socially moderate conservative. I don't need to listen to the likes of Hillary or Obama to know that their brand of socialism is not for me. Nor do I have to go to the MoveOn.org or Daily Kos websites to know what the left is thinking. Would you subscribe to child pornography to understand a pedophile Herb?

I have a very strong mind Herb, and it has determined that liberalism is a disease as Michael Savage says it is. I would no sooner poison my mind with liberalsim than you would drink Hemlock. I was under the mistaken impression that you were a conservative or Libertarian. I now understand that you are a flaming lib who just happens to hate Hillary Clinton. I just hope your "guilt by association" assertions don't come back to haunt the country like "It was only sex" did with Slick Willy.

[Herb Schaffler]

"I now understand that you are a flaming lib "

Where is your evidence, Nohil-billy, that I am a flaming lib?

[nohil-billy]

If you would vote for Barack Obama, the most liberal Senator in the Senate, then you are a flaming lib.

[Herb Schaffler]

I don't agree with Obama's domestic agenda, but of the three main candidates, he is the most supportive of peace and it's on that basis that I will be voting for him. If you check out the Reason.com blog, most of the libertarians on the blog are voting for Obama if they don't vote Libertarian. They criticize Obama's domestic agenda just as I do, but support Obama as the peace candidate among the main three.

[nohil-billy]

Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep.

Obama will be eaten alive by the terrorists and dictators he so willingly wants to negotiate with.

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by nohil-billy

Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep.

Obama will be eaten alive by the terrorists and dictators he so willingly wants to negotiate with.

..that you know or dont know! I can see Billy, that we see things quite alike. Herb doesnt get the Devil that you know vs. the Devil that you dont know scenario. I'd much rather deal with a person whose game plan and beliefs are out in the open so that I know how to deal with them; rather than an unknown 'con-man' who will try to deceive me and who I dont know how to deal with! Just the thought of a Liberal more liberal than Teddy scares the B-jibbers out of me!! That's Obama...need I say more?!