Hillary Clinton Enjoys 100% Rating On Abortion From Planned Parenthood

[Syz]

National Health Care forces all religions to be under government control and disallows the division of Church and State.

Our Health is as individual as our religions, therefore not subject to governmental directive.

Roe vs Wade, which I voted for, is an excellent example, yet the religions against abortion have determined that we should all be subjected to their "belief" and refusal to accept scientic cures at the expense of those who must die because of it. We are subjected to whose God prefers to save the fetus and abort the born.

Despite the fact I do not have the need of religion (which I feel I must mention is my Constitutional right) those that do embrace a God insist I take on their beliefs that will be the directive of our National Health Care.

This intolerance has denied the right of other religions the right of proven scientific health cures and is the equal of 7th century dogma from the Muslim world whose religion we now must add to our National plans.

We're all in good and bad company within our individual religions and beliefs and should not be forced to accept a particular God as the base for a National Health Care that would be subjected to the religious refusal of scientific cures for others.

With so many religions joined within a Health Care Program, scientificc research would become useless and our care subject to the whims of all religions. This is the "why" in a division between Church and State which our Founding Fathers had the good sense to focus on while creating this astounding document.

[nohil-billy]

A very good point. However, it's been my experience that in most cases where treatment is being withheld due to religious belief, government will usually step in, overrule, and order treatment.

[Herb Schaffler]

The government should not intervene in a person's health care decisions unless a minor is involved. My mother is from The Church of the First Born which is a pentacostal type of church that doesn't believe in medical care. They are often in the news in my home state of Oklahoma for denying their children medical care. I believe in freedom of religion, but I believe the line should be drawn when children are being denied medical help. It is child abuse.

[Syz]

I have seen the government and lawyers step in until we no longer have any freedom left. It reminds me of Hillary insisting the government should take over Health Care because 20 million of us don't have it, in the same way she has determined that the profits from oil companies should be redistributed for the common good. A Republic is not based on the common good, but on individual rights regarding their families and most of us are good enough to allow the use of abused children to be dangled as an excuse to give up these rights when previously the religious leaders stepped forward in these circumstances of abuse. The recent schip is a perfect example. Suddenly, the liberals insist we are all against children and their safety. The legal world has made it too difficult to step in and help anyone without landing in jail, plus a mighty fine so we usurp our previous duty as a citizen at the behest of a corrupt government and legal system.

A line from Selwyn Duke's article Homo-expect-us: (He was referring to Imposing Values on Christians and in this case it was in regard to the gay community, but to me it works the same for any of us)

"Anything those on the left choose to remove from the closet must be accepted by all, and no objection to the disposition of the junk is to be respected. In their philosophical chauvinism, however, a very important principle eludes them. You have a legal right to empty out your closet as much as you want. This right ends, though, where my property line begins."

[Corvair]

Originally Posted by Dug

I was not sure what country you lived in or where your from originally. So I was just checking it is called asking a question. Not all the world lives in America though some Americans seem to think so. You may or may not be interested to find out where I live and where I was born.

For the purposes of this topic, it doesn't matter where you or I are from and I still don't understand why you asked me. Country of origin has nothing to do with this discussion. It wouldn't matter if you were from Canada, England, Moldova, Saudi Arabia or Fiji. Your arguments are still illogical.

Originally Posted by Dug

Anyway we are talking about laws not religion or personal religious beliefs.

You're the one who freely joined the discussion on what the Bible says regarding abortion and innocent life.

Originally Posted by Dug

The last time I checked the American constitution upheld the right to freedom of religion

It does. Nobody said it didn't.

Originally Posted by Dug

Anyway as stated previously your God is apparently pro abortion as = nowhere in the bible does it say "Tho shalt not commit abortion, but it does say it is OK to kill the unborn and to kill innocent children in many passages.

Wrong again, you little Bible scholar, you.

Exodus 21:22-25
"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury [neither mother nor child dies], the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury [mother or baby dies], you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

It may not say verbatim, "Thou shalt not commit abortion," but the intent is clear. By the same token, you may not find words in the Bible that say, "Thou shalt not kill your grandmother when she becomes senile," though such a heinous thing clearly is proscribed.

And how you could possibly think any chapter or verse in the Bible says it's "OK" to kill innocent children, or take any innocent life for that matter, is beyond explanation. We must not be talking about the same bible.

(What really is your point, though? Are you suggesting that something not specifically prohibitted is by default endorsed?)

Originally Posted by Dug

Religion has no problem with the killing of the innocent why do you guys seem to want to go against your own Biblical teachings?

Whose religion are you referring to? The Christian faith prohibits the taking of innocent life. Either you are taking all of this as a joke or you are an imbecile.

Originally Posted by Dug

You own criminal justice system does not follow strict biblical teaching otherwise you would have a state like Iran and Saudi Arabia where religious laws are enforced. Are you suggesting America should copy their legal system and bring in a pure form of religious laws, courts and executions for things like Adultery? (Have you ever eaten shrimp or pork or slept with your wife while she was menstruating? If you have you have then by Biblical laws sinned against god and should be punished)

This is incoherent.

Originally Posted by Dug

Yes in hindsight Greenspan says "well it may or may not have been the motive but it sure as hell was convenient"

Now I've seen it all. The man didn't say what you wish he had said, so you write your own sentence, put it in quotation marks and attribute it to him.

Originally Posted by Dug

Do you have an accurate death toll figure for the Iraq invasion? I would love to know.

No, I don't. Neither do you, and you're the one who brought it up.

Originally Posted by Dug

WMD's ???? you suggest Saddam never got rid of his WMD's

How many WMD's did US inspectors find in Iraq after the invasion??????
If inspectors had found one single tiny little WMD then Bush would have shouted from the rooftops they would have said "THIS PROVES WE WERE RIGHT!!!!" but in reality how many did they find after the invasion? 0 none not one nothing zip zero nil. Why did we invade Iraq? to get rid of WMD's
How many WMD's did Saddam have? NONE!

Wrong again, Ace.

http--www.foxnews.com-projects-pdf-Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf.url

I'm sure you won't want to read it as it contradicts what you want to believe (just copy and paste). Why wasn't it all over the news? That's a good question.

There are many reports, though, telling of how Hussein's weapons were shipped to Syria around February of 2003. That's where most of them are now, but he didn't quite finish mopping up. Keep in mind, this is the declassified part of the report. (Who knows what the classified parts say?) The weapons described here are exactly the ones all those impotent UN resolutions required Hussein to dispose of, and to account for their disposal. He did neither.

I'm getting pretty tired of spoonfeeding you, Dug. You are incurious and dishonest and I have a feeling any further discussion with you is pointless.

[Herb Schaffler]

"And how you could possibly think any chapter or verse in the Bible says it's "OK" to kill innocent children, or take any innocent life for that matter, is beyond explanation. We must not be talking about the same bible."

There are places in the Old Testament, Leviticus and Samuel, where the Israelites are commanded to kill every living being within a territory, except in Samuel where the virgin women are to be kept alive and kept for the Israeli invaders.

"You own criminal justice system does not follow strict biblical teaching otherwise you would have a state like Iran and Saudi Arabia where religious laws are enforced. Are you suggesting America should copy their legal system and bring in a pure form of religious laws, courts and executions for things like Adultery? (Have you ever eaten shrimp or pork or slept with your wife while she was menstruating? If you have you have then by Biblical laws sinned against god and should be punished)"

What Dug is talking about is if we were to follow Levitical law. Levitical law says Jews should not eat pork or shell fish or sleep with your wife when she is menstruating. It also states that if you have a rebellious child, he should be taken to the city gate and stoned to death. Also, people caught in the act of adultery should be stoned to death and homosexuals should be stoned to death. There are some religious right people who actually think we should follow these laws.

[Corvair]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

"And how you could possibly think any chapter or verse in the Bible says it's "OK" to kill innocent children, or take any innocent life for that matter, is beyond explanation. We must not be talking about the same bible."

There are places in the Old Testament, Leviticus and Samuel, where the Israelites are commanded to kill every living being within a territory, except in Samuel where the virgin women are to be kept alive and kept for the Israeli invaders.

Herb, the key word was "innocent". What you are referring to was not wanton killing. The reason for God's vengeance was that these people had, for generations, fallen under a demonic spell and they had rebuffed his offering them a chance to repent.

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

"You own criminal justice system does not follow strict biblical teaching otherwise you would have a state like Iran and Saudi Arabia where religious laws are enforced. Are you suggesting America should copy their legal system and bring in a pure form of religious laws, courts and executions for things like Adultery? (Have you ever eaten shrimp or pork or slept with your wife while she was menstruating? If you have you have then by Biblical laws sinned against god and should be punished)"

What Dug is talking about is if we were to follow Levitical law. Levitical law says Jews should not eat pork or shell fish or sleep with your wife when she is menstruating. It also states that if you have a rebellious child, he should be taken to the city gate and stoned to death. Also, people caught in the act of adultery should be stoned to death and homosexuals should be stoned to death. There are some religious right people who actually think we should follow these laws.

Unless I missed someone's post, I don't think anybody here suggested that, though, including me.

[Dug]

Judges 11:29-40 Isaiah 14:21 Ezekiel 9:5-7 Exodus 12:29-30 Jeremiah 51:20-26 Leviticus 26:21-22 Isaiah 13:15-18 1 Samuel 15:2-3 Joshua 8:1-29 Joshua 6:20-21 Judges 20:48 Exodus 32:26-29 2 Kings 2:23-24

killing innocents anyone ? Remember this is a Holy Trinity, 3 in one, Father Son and Holy Spirit, indivisible . So what one says goes for all.

Death and mayhem is part of the bible and some people believe this is the literal truth.

There are some people who believe young children and the unborn are innocent but not the Christian god all are equally sinful and deserving of death according to his teachings.

So why are you guys concerned if non believers have abortions you should be supporting non believers having abortion if you read your bibles and were logical about this stuff rather than just emotional fanatics.


I still have not heard a single logical argument from you as to why doctors and patients should not be given the freedom to practice medical procedures if they believe they are required?

[Dug]

BTW the report you quote is as well hidden as the non existent WMD's of Saddam

can’t open the page “[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link. because it can’t find the server “[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This No Hillary For President Forum Link. .

It may not say verbatim, "Thou shalt not commit abortion," but the intent is clear. By the same token, you may not find words in the Bible that say, "Thou shalt not kill your grandmother when she becomes senile," though such a heinous thing clearly is proscribed.

And yet you seem to believe this book if it says something then it is the absolute truth if it does not say something then you just make up whatever you like, that is not logical. if the bible is a book of truth and rules then they must be clearly stated or the whole exercise is pointless. As for me killing my grandmother I would no problem medically assisting her death if she was incapable of enjoying a healthy and mentally active life. I have asked that my family do the same for me if I cannot care for myself. Again you make up rules that have no reason and expect others to follow them because you think they are good.


If I was to say "The Great Flying Spaghetti Monster wants you to eat pasta every friday" Is that a good reason to eat pasta or just a load on meaningless nonsense? It is nonsense, just as your arguments and protestations. The only difference is pasta does not hurt anyone your religious rules do.

[Syz]

I decided to stop in and mop up a little by telling y'all a funny. My Dad solved a problem that involved considerable arguments for years by announcing upon his death that his three daughters were not to run the family business because it would take us 5 years to decide what color the catalog should be.

P.S. I saw what Saddam's WMD did to his own people via Look Mag. years ago when he lived under Inshalla approval and was at his particular God's vile best. This adorable little tongue slicer who decapitated strangers and shot children in the back, that all liberals feel we should have left alone, has always had these weapons and the question has only been "What Did He Do With Them?" and we all know the answer to that. "These acts are not only done by poor and uneducated despots, but at other times they are done by the wealthy who have PH.D's." (quote John Agresto)

I couldn't be more proud of my country for having pulled the rope on this most vile terrorist in the hope of removing the Middle East from the dogma of the 7th century and its hoped for tyranny toward all mankind.