Bill Clinton: Blacks Naturally Drawn to Obama Because He's Black

[NoHitlery]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

I actually agree with some of what Wright said. Our bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was nothing but an act of terrorism. Anytime you kill innocent civilians in order to promote terrorism among the enemy, you are engaging in terrorism. Saying that does not make Wright anti-American. He is just saying he is against certain American policy. Our policy in the Middle East does promote blowback against American citizens. That's not to justify the actions of Osama bin Laden, but if we don't realize what led him to attack America, we fail to correct our foreign policy and invite future terrorist attacks against American citizens.

I'm tired of the foreign policy that we've had for the past 7 years, that's why I plan to vote for Obama over McCain. I told my Iranian wife that I would vote for McCain over Hillary and she blew her top. She told me that if McCain bombs Iran, I'll be partly responsible for the loss of life of her countrymen. I thought about it awhile and came to agree with her. She and I both voted for Obama in the Texas primary and the Texas caucus so she's no Hillary fan either, but she made a deal with me. If Hillary should somehow steal the nomination, she said she won't vote for Hillary if I don't vote for McCain. So under the circumstances of such a horrible matchup, I'll vote Libertarian as I usually do.

Originally Posted by smoothbore

Totally disagree that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a terrorist act...or is that what is now being taught in school?

Those events happened at the end of a long and contentious war, started by the Japanese and their desire to expand their sphere of control. If you want to consider terrorism, ask the Chinese about Nanking while under Japanese control.

The decision to drop atomic bombs was balanced against the potential loss of a million lives should there have been an invasion of Japan. Those bombs were dropped to stop the war....or do you contend that it was our fault that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor?

Patrick

Sounds like you were educated where things that matter actually count. Sure seems to be a bunch of whining going on about this topic, think maybe some Republican wannabes have infiltrated our ranks.

[Herb Schaffler]

"Think our planes and military equipment work better in NY than in the sand? Perhaps you have forgotten 9-11 and all the attacks on U.S. assets since the 70's."

Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. We are attacked because of our meddling foreign policy. None of this policy in the Middle East is any of our business. To stabilize Iraq, we will have to remain there permanently. Can we afford to have troops stationed all over the world? We are overextending ourselves just as Rome did and like Rome, our empire will fall. Is it our business to be the policeman of the world? Is it Constitutional? Nothing in our Constitution gives us that authority. Our Founding Fathers were very opposed to such a policy. Conservative Republicans were at one time opposed to such a policy.

As far as my wife telling me how to vote, I listen to her and if I agree with her views, I am open to change my position. I believe McCain has an overblown lust for war and will have us involved in war in every year he's president. I don't think he could be happy if we weren't involved in war.

Our involvement in Iraq has created a vacuum in the area, so it's our doing that has created a mess there in the first place. If Iran were to take over Iraq, there is no reason why we couldn't have friendly trading relations with them. There's no need to nuke them.

So the loss of 5000 Marines justifies the wholesale slaughter of innocent unarmed civilians?

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

"I believe McCain has an overblown lust for war and will have us involved in war in every year he's president. I don't think he could be happy if we weren't involved in war.

Dont mis-interpret tough talk and standing firm in our heritage as a 'lust for war!' The Arab psyche (I've lived among them!) only understands might with force to back it up---words are weakness! They think that we are weak because we dont typically want to respond with force---until Bush! They think that we are weak because we 'cry over a single soldier getting killed!' It is a whole different mentality over there, Herb!! 'Just words' (as Obama likes to say) wont cut it with those ppl---we need strength, might, and the availability of force to keep 'peace' in that area---they must know what 'the cost' is if they continue their policies, terrorism support & training, etc.! If you treat them like they have a Western mentality with a 'cant we all just get along' philosophy, you will just delay the inevitable....think about it!

And, BTW, any soldier who has actually been in war time, and seen the blood-bath & death of his friends, doesnt look forward to more war!!! I dont believe that McCain has a 'lust for war,' just another stereotype to discredit his tough stance against the enemies of the U.S.

I see John McCain in the same 'cut' as a Teddy Roosevelt....the little tough guy!

[Herb Schaffler]

"I see John McCain in the same 'cut' as a Teddy Roosevelt....the little tough guy!"

Teddy Roosevelt, another warmonger!

"we need strength, might, and the availability of force to keep 'peace' in that area"

How is this our responsibility? Why are we supposed to be the policeman of the world? Continuing this policy will result in the eventual collapse of our economy. It is also creating resentment against us the world over.

"they must know what 'the cost' is if they continue their policies, terrorism support & training, etc.!"

This ignores why they direct terrorism against us in the first place. It is because of our meddling foreign policy. If another country was meddling in our business, would we sit back and let them? Ben Guyan (spelling?), the Israeli "hero" of the 1948 war said that if he were in the Palestinians' shoes, he would do the very same thing they were doing, ie, defending their homeland.

"If you treat them like they have a Western mentality with a 'cant we all just get along' philosophy, you will just delay the inevitable"

You might be surprised. If we had friendly trading relations with them, you might be surprised how well that would work. They aren't inherently evil as some would have us believe. They're people just like us.

"just another stereotype to discredit his tough stance against the enemies of the U.S."

They are enemies of the US, because we've made them enemies of the US because of our meddling foreign policy.

[jamwadmag]

Originally Posted by Herb Schaffler

"we need strength, might, and the availability of force to keep 'peace' in that area"

How is this our responsibility? Why are we supposed to be the policeman of the world? Continuing this policy will result in the eventual collapse of our economy. It is also creating resentment against us the world over.

The UN wants us to be the policeman of the world, which by the way is HERE in this country (ala 9-11), but ties our hands to accomplish it (words, violations, but no action).

"they must know what 'the cost' is if they continue their policies, terrorism support & training, etc.!"

This ignores why they direct terrorism against us in the first place. It is because of our meddling foreign policy. If another country was meddling in our business, would we sit back and let them? Ben Guyan (spelling?), the Israeli "hero" of the 1948 war said that if he were in the Palestinians' shoes, he would do the very same thing they were doing, ie, defending their homeland.

Guess that also applies to the middle-ages take over of the Holy lands by the Ottomans! It goes back a long ways...

"If you treat them like they have a Western mentality with a 'cant we all just get along' philosophy, you will just delay the inevitable"

You might be surprised. If we had friendly trading relations with them, you might be surprised how well that would work. They aren't inherently evil as some would have us believe. They're people just like us.

There you are but 'totally' wrong. They arent like us! I had a best friend back in the late 70's who was an 'Americanized' Iranian engineer---he sounded as Western as you and me..but, when he took his American wife and child over to Iran he became the chavanistic male just as those of his country---they are now divorced and he wouldnt (at that time) let the child (who spoke only English since born/raised in the U.S.) return with her mother! They are raised with a different mentality and value system (theocratic, not democratic) than us!!

"just another stereotype to discredit his tough stance against the enemies of the U.S." They are enemies of the US, because we've made them enemies of the US because of our meddling foreign policy.

Yeah, we have taken hostages of their innocents, and we cut off hands, stone ppl there all the time! I have been overseas 3 times in my life, from child to GI, and we have always been 'hated' by the countries of this world---read 'The Ugly American'---not the new one by the Judge but the 1960's original. Some of the 'hatred' is that we are world resources hogs, but some is just plain jealousy!! In addition, the Islamists hate our 'modern' morality (or lack of) and our Western religions of Judism & Christianity!!

For you and I being the same age, we must have traveled in different circles in life to arrive at such major differences in our views?!!

[kuta777]

I just opened this and haven't had a chance to read everyones posts, but it is just as easy to ask how many votes hillary will get from the feminazi's just for being a woman. Way to go bill.

[Herb Schaffler]

"The UN wants us to be the policeman of the world"

Do we follow the UN's dictates or do we follow the Constitution?

"There you are but 'totally' wrong. They arent like us! I had a best friend back in the late 70's who was an 'Americanized' Iranian engineer---he sounded as Western as you and me..but, when he took his American wife and child over to Iran he became the chavanistic male just as those of his country---they are now divorced and he wouldnt (at that time) let the child (who spoke only English since born/raised in the U.S.) return with her mother! They are raised with a different mentality and value system (theocratic, not democratic) than us!!"

True, there are alot of Iranians with this male oriented mentality, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they would be willing to have friendly trading relations with us. Our Founding Fathers believed in animosity toward none, friendly trading relations with all. It seems that this country has drifted far from the desires and wishes of our Founders.

"Yeah, we have taken hostages of their innocents"

The Iranian students did that in 1979 because they feared we would return the Shah to power. We overthrew the democratically elected Mossadegh, and installed a ruthless dictator. Is it any wonder they took hostages to prevent his return?

"Some of the 'hatred' is that we are world resources hogs, but some is just plain jealousy!! In addition, the Islamists hate our 'modern' morality (or lack of) and our Western religions of Judism & Christianity!!"

Zogby did two polls in the Middle East this decade and found that Middle Easterners actually admire us for our freedoms and technological success. The thing they didn't like about us was our meddling foreign policy. They're not jealous of us, they admire us. Warmongers want to meddle in other countries. They know deep down that our meddling foreign policy is causing blowback, but they don't want to accept that. It would mean that they would have to give up their meddling foreign policy and projection of power that they so love. We're paying for this empire mentality with acts of terrorism aimed against us and a draining of our economy. That's why I would love to see McCain lose. Maybe then, the Republicans will learn the lesson that they should have learned in 2006 when they lost control on Congress.

"For you and I being the same age, we must have traveled in different circles in life to arrive at such major differences in our views?!!"

My views were once like yours, but as I read more about foreign policy, I came to the realization of how wrong our foreign policy is.

[Syz]

I'm enjoying my Sissy Nation, How America Became a Culture of Wimps & Stoopits.

For the pie in the sky thinkers, just let an elder in the family die and see how many relatives swoop in for the spoils--it's Barbarism at its finest moment, up comes our corrupt judiciary, in comes the REAL injustice. The greedy American. Foreign countries don't work that way. The leaders still settle family and state matters by cutting your hands and tongues off and off you go. All settled nice and neatsy.

Left wing, Right wing, it's all chicken sht. And please take note while researching that we never took the spoils of war from any country we fought. Pulled France A out of the fire, saved the few left ready for the ovens. We left the countries to regroup and foolishly helped them rebuild. Yes, you bet we asked for considerations here and there--every reason to hate our guts in the propaganda world. We were civilized then- Check Ron Paul. He's lived it and by the way, he is not against military intervention anywhere it's required and of course, he understood the Congress was the one to approve of it, as they did the war in Iraq. Hence his purpose that this nation have the greatest military might which avoids all wars is too much of brain twister to comprehend.

Television brought us a propaganda machine and we became as corrupt, destructive and as un Constitutionalized as those we fought. We became the Sissy Nation with Sissy Leaders. Sissy as in lack of courage, conviction, spine and balls.

The biggest Sissy Commander and Chief to date: Bill Clinton--most sissy act was to look us right in the eye and lie to us about blow--jbs, then drag the entire nation down with him through the impeachment proceedings. He loved being such a part of humiliating our country and wore it like a badge of honor. His serial perversion wasn't the problem, it was his craven lying about it when he got caught and the willingness to make the entire nation suffer for his idiotic indescretions.

(following from Sissy Nation: "There was a time when every child in America was taught a parable about another president and a cherry tree, the lesson of which was a real American hero owns up to his mistakes and trangressions---at least when he got caught. President Buster Cherry must have been absent that day.

I make the following predictions: In November 2009, Bill and Hillary Clinton will still be fighting the 2008 election results. They'll call in Iran for financial support and think nothing of it. Save your concerns regarding what other countries think of us. I don't think much of them either or my fellowman and woman at this moment. I guess the only nice thing I have left to say is my government of today can go to "L"

[Herb Schaffler]

"the Congress was the one to approve of it, as they did the war in Iraq."

Actually, they didn't. They shirked their responsibility and gave the President authority to do as he pleased. It was the President that sent us to war and not Congress.

"Hence his purpose that this nation have the greatest military might which avoids all wars is too much of brain twister to comprehend."

Ron Paul meant that we should have a military strong enough to protect America and our interests, not Israel's interests or any other country's interests. It's also interesting to point out that the Bush Administration refused to publish a section of a Congressional report into Saudi Arabia's links with the hijackers on 9/11. As a US official said "It's really damning. What it says is that not only Saudi entities or nationals are implicated in 9/11, but the [Saudi] government." Instead the US pursued Iraq, even though they had nothing to do with the attacks. But you see, the US has ties with Saudi Arabia, so we couldn't go after them. The neocons had been looking for an excuse to attack Iraq for a long time, so they tried to make a link with Iraq and 9/11.

Speaking of Bush's predecessor, we had talked the Kurds into overthrowing Sadam Hussein and we were going to supply them with air support, but the President was needed to give the ok. Sandy Berger called Clinton while Clinton was attending a golf tournament to get the ok for air support. Clinton was too busy watching the tournament to take the call and as a result, the Kurds were slaughtered. If Hillary is anything like Bill, when that 3:00 am phone call comes in, would she be willing to answer it? Maybe she would be too busy with a tournament of her own with Janet Reno and Madelyn Albright. Did I say that? Lost my head!

[Syz]

Agreed-We are holding Israel back from what they need to do as a nation. We can't take care of our own country anymore.

Just watched Hardball and Hillary---It's difficult to watch someone mentally destroy themselves and I came away feeling Hillary was starring in The Caine Mutiny and has substituted super delegates for Queeg's strawberries. Get this woman some lithium and a quiet corner with a Matron near by. She's on a bi-polar high and about to crash.